Talk:BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir London

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A copyright infringement[edit]

A number of sentences in this article were taken directly from other articles on the web, and have been removed as possible copyright violations. Please write articles in your own words, or inform us if you are the copyright holder of those original articles. -- The Anome 08:57 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for putting me right. It was my first from scratch article! David Thrale 18:23 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Security section[edit]

Who has added the irrelevant [leaving aside unsubstantiated and incorrect] notes under the subtitle 'Security'? > What is the reason for this? The wording of the text seems totally out of place - especially the 'same material as police riotshields'. Is there some implicit, negative undertone to this kind of message?

  • I was also wondering about the 'Security' section. Whilst I'm sure it was well intentioned, it seems quite unecessary.86.139.174.117 13:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does anybody have any justified objections to the removal of this section? If not I'll go ahead and delete it. Dylanpatel 23:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In these times of much religious and racial hostility, and much casual vandalism, and much ordinary theft of valuable objects such as temple images, needs for security at this sort of place are very relevant and necessary. Leave this section in. Anthony Appleyard 09:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not disputing the NEED for the security measures in place, I just don't feel its necessary to mention them in the article. You don't generally find assesments of the security features in other buildings on wikipedia, or encylopedias in general. I couldn understand if there's been some major security threat or incident at the temple, but that isn't the case. Whilst well intentioned, I'm afraid it's just a superfluous bit of information.Dylanpatel 16:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may not be interesting to you, but it is interesting to some. Security matters. Anthony Appleyard 18:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd be greatful if you qualify the following remarks:
"Otherwise, representative images seem to be largely high up on the walls. "
"Some of the ornamental pillars inside the temple have transparent polycarbonate casings (same material as police riotshields)."
What exactly do you mean by representative images? Are you referring to the deities carved on the pillars and in the dome? If so, they are there because that's where they belong according to Indian temple design, not because the designers were worried people would steal them. Also, the plastic casings around the pillars are simply there to deter people from touching - thereby wearing away - the carvings. They're not there for security. You'd need a chisel and hammer to remove a carving as it's carved into the solid stone pillar!

Dylanpatel 12:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was not talking ony of removing the image, but also other sorts of other damage. Anthony Appleyard 15:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Finally, as I said before, I wasn't disputing the NEED for security, and I agree that it matters and is important, but here, on Wikipedia, it is irrelevant. The whole concept of Wikipedia is that it is open to all to edit and contribute. Making changes and removing out of date or irrelevant information is just part and parcel of life here, and it's not meant as a personal attack! You've done a great job on other aspects of the article, I just feel it could do with a little clean up. Dylanpatel 12:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can we compromise?

There is a sliding iron security screen in front of the murtis.
Can we reword this to, "Murtis are protected by a sliding iron security screen.", and include it in the murtis section of this article?
Otherwise, representative images seem to be largely high up on the walls.
Seems irrelevant and out-of-place.

Moksha88 12:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen pictures of Hindu temples where there are plenty of images low on the walls. There must be some reason not to have them here. Anthony Appleyard 15:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the ornamental pillars inside the temple have transparent polycarbonate casings (same material as police riotshields).
Perhaps we could reword this comment to, "Some of the ornamental pillars have transparent polycarbonate casings.", and include it in the architecture section? Although, this one as well seems a little odd as well.

Moksha88 12:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reason not to leave this line as I wrote it, and I see no reason not to have a ==security== section. Security is as important a consideration as anything else. Anthony Appleyard 15:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The protected pillars seem to be in the temple room and not elsewhere; and I put in "same material as police riotshields" to explain what polycarbonate is. Moksha88 12:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a good compromise to me. Good job. Dylanpatel 13:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I still prefer to put all the information in. Anthony Appleyard 15:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, this is getting out of hand. You can't go adding replies here and there so it looks like I've agreed to your response. There are brass gates at the front of each shrine like EVERY SINGLE other Hindu temple in world. There are clear plastic casings on the most intricate pillars to stop people touching the delicate carvings. Thats it. By your standards, you should be editing every article of every building that has protective coverings to note the fact. I am still none the wiser as to what you mean by 'representative images'. We now have four people who have said that having a security section is irrelevant. We can wait for more people to agree, or we can remove it. What's it to be? You really can't be over protective of your contributions. If people feel they're out of place, or unnecessary, perhaps they are! This edit of the security section was meant to be the first part of a series of edits to bring the article up to scratch. You're going to have to loosen the apron strings a bit and let other people contribute if this article is to meet Wikipedia standards.Dylanpatel 15:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have been in Hindu temples in England where there is no screen or barrier in front of the murti platform. Anthony Appleyard 12:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Then I can only conclude that they are either the exception to the rule, or they have some sort of other arrangement in place to stop anybody desecrating the images. But I'm glad that we've reached a conclusion on the matter, thanks for being understanding. Hopefully we can work together to improve the article even more! Dylanpatel 12:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Name of the building[edit]

Hi, I have a suggestion. The official name of this building is 'BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London' (according to their website). Perhaps it would be an idea to move this page to a title that reflects that, and have 'Neasden Temple' redirect there. This would be in keeping with the pages for BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir Chicago and BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir Houston. Any suggestions? Objections? Ideas? Regards, Dylanpatel 23:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anybody have any thoughts on this? I think moving the article to a new page would make sense. Dylanpatel 12:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and changed the name of the article. I checked for double redirects but didn't come across any...if I've missed any please let me know! Dylanpatel 13:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hey bhai, hate to nit pick (and I know know it's incredibly late) but would it have more sense to add a comma (to all of them to keep uniform, perhaps)? Example: BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London, BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, Chicago, etc... I feel it would make sense to distinguish the location, for some reason... Just my opinion. -- Harish - 02:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested Edit[edit]

Hi, as it says at the top of the article, it could do with a clean up. Here's my suggestion below. Please feel free to make comments and suggestions!

Start of suggested edit

File:Londonmandir.jpg
BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London.

BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir, London is a Hindu temple in Neasden, in the London Borough of Brent, in North West London. It is Europes first traditional Hindu temple, and according to Guinness World Records, it is the largest temple outside india, although this distinction may now be taken by the Balaji Temple in Tividale, West Midlands. It is also known as the 'Neasden Temple'.

The Mandir[edit]

The Mandir is the focal point of the complex. Designed according to the ancient Indian Stapatya-Shastra, it is a from Italian marble and Bulgarian limestone. The stone was shipped to India where it was hand-carved by over 1,500 craftsmen. Each individually numbered piece was then shipped back to London and the building was assembled like a giant three dimensional jigsaw. The Mandir facility contains no iron or steel, a unique feature for a modern building in the UK. The Mandir was inaugurated on 20 August 1995 by Pramukh Swami Maharaj, the spiritual leader of BAPS - the organisation behind the temple.

The Mandir serves as the centre of worship. Directly beneath each of the seven pinnacles seen from the outside are shrines. Each shrine houses murtis within golden sihasans (alters). Each murti is treated like the incarnation of Godhead and therefore each deity is bathed, clothed, fed, and attended to each day by the sadhus (monks) who live in the temple. More details on the daily rituals.

The Haveli[edit]

File:Haveli03f.jpg
The Haveli

Adjoining the Mandir is BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Haveli, a cultural complex. it has been designed according to traditional Indian Haveli architecure - an architectural style fashioned from wood, involving intricate carving. The building was designed to evoke feelings of being in Gujarat, India, where such architecture is commonplace. It took over 150 craftsmen from all over India 3 years to carve 17,000 square feet of wood. Behind the traditional wooden facade, the cultural centre houses a vast pillarless prayer hall with space for 4000 people, gymnasium, marriage hall, medical centre, dining facilities, bookstall, conference facilities, and offices.

Shayona[edit]

Across from the Mandir complex is Shayona. It is made up of a shop that sells Indian groceries, and also as a restaurant that serves vegetarian food. The building Shayona occupies, a former warehouse, served as the BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir from 1982 until 1995. Next to Shayona is Akshar IT Centre, an adult learning centre that provides IT courses.

The Swaminarayan School[edit]

On the opposite side of the Mandir is The Swaminarayan School, Europes first independant Hindu school. Opened in 1991 by Pramukh Swami Maharaj, it follows the National Curriculum whilst promoting aspects of Hindu culture such as dance, music, and language.

Other BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandirs[edit]

Since the opening of the Neasden Temple, other Mandirs and Haveli's have opened across the world:

In 2007, BAPS will open a Mandir in Toronto, Canada (Toronto currently has a Haveli but no Mandir) and a Mandir and Haveli complex in Atlanta, USA. A Haveli will also open in Los Angeles, USA with plans for a Mandir in the future.

See Also[edit]

External links[edit]

End of suggested edit

Please sign your comments![edit]

This page is looking incredibly disorganized - please sign your comments when you make an edit here using four tildes ~~~~. Sfacets 23:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"largest outside India"[edit]

Whether one building is "bigger" than another, may differ according to whether it is measured by:-

  1. Ground area of buildings.
  2. Floor area of buildings including all storeys.
  3. Volume of buildings.
  4. Area of buildings and attached land.

Anthony Appleyard 12:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thats something you'd have to take up with Guinness World Records, not the temple. Dylanpatel 12:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'Notable Achievements' Section?[edit]

Hi all! I was thinking to add a section documenting the achievements this mandir has received, and just wanted some thoughts...

I came across this, which inspired the thought:

Maybe I'd need to look for more, but it helps add to the article positively.


Another thought; I dunno if it's worth mentioning when we get notable dignitaries who visit? For example, when Prince Charles and his wife visited on the Hindu new year's day in November, 2007. I would like to make it clear that this is a separate point and suggestion from the main point of this topic. -- Harish - 02:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'Stapatya-Shastra'[edit]

Under the heading of 'The Mandir', it's uses this term and it links to nothing. My question is, is it meant to mean the following: 'Shilpa Shastras'? If someone actually knows, do change. -- Harish - 12:15, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another massive Hindu temple in London?[edit]

There's a BBC News article "New £16m Hindu temple opens in Wembley". about another Hindu temple similar in size to this, the Shree Sanatan Hindu Mandir on the Ealing road. A quick check with mapping tools suggests that this is a completely different building, in a different part of London, and not a duplicate name for the BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir. Presumably we should have an article on this, too. -- The Anome (talk) 07:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Text Box[edit]

The primary deity of the mandir is Bhagwan Swaminarayan according to the mandir's official website - http://londonmandir.baps.org/worship/ so I have reverted Swamiblue's change. Since it is the deity of the mandir, I have included the honorific Bhagwan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sacredsea (talk • contribs) 21:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Swaminarayan is not a deity but a person. The website states when there is three people in the central shrine from the group, it is called Dham, Dhami and Mukta. Go ahead and call your friends to support you even though you have a strong conflict of interest as you a member of this group but the website clearly explains it. http://londonmandir.baps.org/worship/swaminarayan-theology-a-very-brief-exposition/Swamiblue (talk) 14:59, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I went through the website in detail. The website states that Swaminarayan is considered a deity by them, and they have put his murti in the mandir. Swamiblue clearly has a different personal opinion, but based on their website - http://londonmandir.baps.org/worship/sacred-images/ & http://londonmandir.baps.org/worship/murti-puja-image-worship-in-hinduism/ they use the term deity and Bhagwan Swaminarayan for the murti in the mandir. Moreover, on the worship page that I cited in the earlier post, they clearly state: "BAPS Shri Swaminarayan Mandir is a Hindu temple dedicated to the worship of Bhagwan Swaminarayan and the millennia-old practice of the Hindu faith." I noted the webpage cited in the post of Swamiblue, but Dham, Dhami, Mukta is just a colloquial rendering of the murtis in the central shrine, not who the temple is dedicated to, or their principle deity. Sacredsea (talk) 01:15, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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History: repitition[edit]

Several sentences in the paragraph on History are repeated, with trivial differences, one version at the start and the other version at the end. Could someone close to this article please decide which to keep and where? Exbrum (talk) 09:19, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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