Talk:Andrey Vlasov

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Untitled[edit]

While full of rhetoric, this magazine article (in Russian) by Kirill Aleksandrov ponders various positive aspects of Vlasov biography and personality, trying to consider Vlasov from different angles than commonly done by the official Soviet POV (the latter POV coincides with the one presented in the today's version of the WP article). Might be an interesting source to start research towards a better NPOV article. Kirill Aleksandrov is a historian, and it seems that he summarizes some of his research results in the article. Could be that better search might dig up his actual historical research works along with substantiating references. Without that, I suggest not to modify the main article, as this issue is quite sensitive, esp. to the surviving World War II veterans that fought in the region. BACbKA 22:16, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Some questions for the editors... please[edit]

First BACbKA the link you provided was dead. Sorry.

Now about this paragraph:

Soviet authorities sent Vlasov and his men to Moscow, and in a summary trial held in the summer of 1946 sentenced him and eleven other senior officers from his army to death. They were hanged on August 2, 1946. This was the last sentence to death by hanging in the Soviet Union. The remaining soldiers were loaded into boxcars and sent back to Russia. It was reported that some of them were machine gunned as they got off the train; however the majority of surviving Vlasov soldiers and low-ranking officers were not executed, but imprisoned to labor camps. Some of them were among 55 thousand collaborators that were pardoned by the post-Stalin Soviet government on September 17, 1955.

I would really like to know the source of this information. I am doing a research project on the Vlasov's men. According to an article I found in National Geographic (don't ask me which one, it was a while ago) there were some Russian collaborators remaining in prison until the 1990s and I would presume until the final fall of the Soviet Union.

Any information anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated.Piercetp

Working link here. Pavel Vozenilek 20:47, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
PS: Please sign your edits with ~~~~.

Thanks Pavel but....[edit]

This link is in Russian. Does it mention anything about the fate of the soldiers in the ROA?

Piercetp

It doesn't say anything about soldier's fates and it's a totally biased article anyway.
As far as I know, nobody ever tried to track the fates of Vlasov's soldiers among hundreds of thousands of GULAG inhabitants. But the legends about some people remaining in camps until the 90'ies look very suspicious to me, unless confirmed with reliable sources. Eleyvie 11:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

___________________________________

Solzhenitsyn has a good discussion of Vlasov and his men in his work, "Gulag Archipelago". He also mentions a fascist political group set up in conjunction with this operation known as, to my best recollection, the Russian National Party of Labor, that functioned as an arm of the Nazi Party in the Russian emigre movement, but it can't find any mention of it on Wikipedia. In this regard, I recall mention of the Ukranian and Russian SS. An interesting sidelight to this story is that Hitler actually sent certain Cossack units into northern Italy late in the war to fight the Italian and Yugoslav partisans operating in that area. Part of their motivation was a promise by Hitler to give a portion of this area to them after the war as a "homeland." Tom Cod 00:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Would that be the NTS (Natsional'no-Trudovoi Soyuz) / НТС (Национально-Трудовой Союз) which Kazantsev mentions in his book Tret'ya Sila?
--Mjjohansen 18:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Whitewashing[edit]

The opening paragraph is full of whitewashing. If anything, Vlasov wanted to replace Stalin with Hitler, not liberate Russia from Stalin... Ko Soi IX 20:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

pure opinion. Do you have even the slightest piece of evidence for this statement??

___________________________________

Vlasov's motives are under constant discussion.
It is sometimes claimed that AAV acted out of hope for personal gains, disregarding anything but where the political and military wind blows; sometimes it is said that he wanted a Soviet Union but without Iosif Stalin at the rudder; some have claimed that he wanted the pre-revolutionary Russia back (which is unlikely, considering his role in the civil war, among other things; this is probably inspired by the fact that quite a few sources were white emigrants from the revolution).
Despite having worked with this topic for years, I have never seen any evidence to suggest that the thought of Russian or the entire Soviet Union as a vassal state of Germany was appealing to AAV.
--Mjjohansen 11:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Case review & Defenders of Moscow: Illustration[edit]

First: Does anyone have a link to the rehabilitation case mentioned here?
I am working on a project regarding Andrey Andreyevich Vlasov. As you will see, he played a part in the defence of Moscow, and his picture was printed along with other officers in Pravda. I have seen this illustration somewhere on the web, but I lost it.
Does anyone know where it is?
My e-mail address is in my profile.
--Mjjohansen 20:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wilfried Strik-Strikfeldt & V. Boyarsky, Infobox[edit]

I have opened a stub on Wilfried Strik-Strikfeldt and Vladimir Boyarsky. I encourage you all to expand on it, since, if it has to wait until I have time to do it, it may be a while! Also, I have added an infobox, but the facts in it are limited. So there as well, please expand. --Mjjohansen 17:07, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

couple of mistakes. most embarassing one being that Tyrol is a region rather than a city as stated in the article. lots of speculations without sources. begging for improvement.

-interesting article nevertheless. Shows the paranoia in the soviet union. Stalin must have been preetty mean and cruel to send a pan-slavic commander into nazi territory. Goes to show you never really kn9w wats goin' on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.105 (talk) 20:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Show Trial" Citation[edit]

There are many unverified and polemical references in this entry. For instance, it is stated that the officers were convicted during a "show trial" with no citation. This after demonstrating that the officers deserted from their own army to collaborate with the Nazi's who were invading Russia. The case against them seems rather clear-cut. --Shane Kenyon (talk) 12:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who "deserted"? (217.184.150.115 (talk) 11:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC))[reply]

pfff... Andrei Vlasov? --Hoygan!! (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whose custody?[edit]

Recent edits changed the article to say that Vlasov was captured by the Soviets, but Brittanica says he surrendered to American forces. I don't have access to the cited Konev source. Does Brittanica have this one wrong? AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 00:01, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The article now says that he refused to surrender to American forces. Any idea why? I would think that he would have expected better treatment from the Americans than from the Soviets.Bill (talk) 00:27, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Death?[edit]

The article calls Aug. 1st, 1946 as DoD, the box Aug. 2nd, 1946. Are both reliable sourced? A current story in Germany’s biggest news mag Der Spiegel names Aug. 2nd as the date for the execution. Different sources name Aug. 1st. As well does the Encyclopædia Britannica but added a question mark behind it. There are pages in Russian that may lead to the conclusion that only the verdict was decided on Aug. 1st (Roughly in terms like “russian media was permitted again to report about him after the verdict from Aug. 2nd again. Any ideas? with best wishes from VINCENZO1492 10:25, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It might be best for now to say "either 1 or 2 August" with the conflicting sources. Is 2 Aug based on more than a mere assumption that Soviets would be carry out the sentence a day later? Sparafucil (talk) 21:17, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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List of recommended Russian language sources[edit]

  • [1]. Perhaps some of them might be included, but this should be decided for each one. Most of them, like "А. В. Тишков: Предатель перед Советским Судом. Советское Государство и Право, 2/1973" are an outright propaganda/misinformation. My very best wishes (talk) 17:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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